>>> However, the fact that a random 18-year old can buy $20,000 of guns in Arizona and just walk out the door is the real cause of the problem.
Nope, it is not. Random 18-year olds do not resell thousands of guns to Mexican drug cartels. The guys that did were known to ATF and sellers repeatedly alerted ATF - the agency that by law is designed to stop it - about them. The system worked - until it did not, because ATF thought they would be geniuses to allow the guns to "walk".
>>> The ATF, by law, can't even set up a database of who bought what gun.
By which law? This sounds like complete baloney - ATF knew who bought the guns. They just didn't intervene because this was the plan - to let the guns "walk", not because some law prevented them from knowing who bought what.
>>> If "Fast and Furious" was really the cause of those guns getting to Mexico
What you mean "if"? It is the fact that F&F was the reason of those guns getting to Mexico. If F&F was not underway, these buyers would have been stopped and the guns were confiscated before they reach Mexico.
>>> why are guns still getting to Mexico,
Because there are other ways of getting guns to Mexico, duh. You'd make a fine defense lawyer: "If my client sold these drugs on the street, as this footage and this undercover officer suggests, how comes drugs are still sold on the street when my client already had been arrested?". Too bad this defense makes no sense at all - of course ATF is not the only channel Mexican gangs can smuggle guns. That does not diminish the fact those specific guns were smuggled with full ATF cooperation and help, which should not have happened. And this does not diminish the fact AG lied about it after the fact that this ill-conceived mess of an operation was exposed. They knew it's a mess, they lied to cover their asses - and they got away with it. And Obama shares the blame for it.
Really, with this kind of argument I would not be so quick to throw around the "stupidity" word if I were you. I'd first learn to figure out difference between "X caused this specific instance of Y" and "X caused all instances of Y ever".
I'm honestly perplexed by your answer here - did you read the Fortune article? It has quoted sources and emails to back up the fact that state prosecutors refused to allow the ATF agents to do anything with these gun runners. That is, they told them that buying a large amount of guns was legal, and that even transferring them to someone else was legal as well.
If the state DA isn't will to prosecute, then what would you suggest the ATF agents do? And if the ATF agents know that guns are being purchased, but then cannot arrest those individuals because they do not have probable cause, why would you call that "allowing the guns to walk"?
Nope, it is not. Random 18-year olds do not resell thousands of guns to Mexican drug cartels. The guys that did were known to ATF and sellers repeatedly alerted ATF - the agency that by law is designed to stop it - about them. The system worked - until it did not, because ATF thought they would be geniuses to allow the guns to "walk".
>>> The ATF, by law, can't even set up a database of who bought what gun.
By which law? This sounds like complete baloney - ATF knew who bought the guns. They just didn't intervene because this was the plan - to let the guns "walk", not because some law prevented them from knowing who bought what.
>>> If "Fast and Furious" was really the cause of those guns getting to Mexico
What you mean "if"? It is the fact that F&F was the reason of those guns getting to Mexico. If F&F was not underway, these buyers would have been stopped and the guns were confiscated before they reach Mexico.
>>> why are guns still getting to Mexico,
Because there are other ways of getting guns to Mexico, duh. You'd make a fine defense lawyer: "If my client sold these drugs on the street, as this footage and this undercover officer suggests, how comes drugs are still sold on the street when my client already had been arrested?". Too bad this defense makes no sense at all - of course ATF is not the only channel Mexican gangs can smuggle guns. That does not diminish the fact those specific guns were smuggled with full ATF cooperation and help, which should not have happened. And this does not diminish the fact AG lied about it after the fact that this ill-conceived mess of an operation was exposed. They knew it's a mess, they lied to cover their asses - and they got away with it. And Obama shares the blame for it.
Really, with this kind of argument I would not be so quick to throw around the "stupidity" word if I were you. I'd first learn to figure out difference between "X caused this specific instance of Y" and "X caused all instances of Y ever".